Rococo Revival corner wine cabinet
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Antique Furniture Attributions thread on victorianforum.com · started March 18, 2011 by JohnM · 12 posts, 1 image attachment · discussion in 2011.
We acquired this lovely mahogany corner wine cabinet in an estate liquidation shop this week. Has anyone ever seen another? I would appreciate any additional comments. It is very nicely made with some wooden-pegging of joints in the carcase. The lower cabinet has various…
We acquired this lovely mahogany corner wine cabinet in an estate liquidation shop this week. Has anyone ever seen another? I would appreciate any additional comments. It is very nicely made with some wooden-pegging of joints in the carcase. The lower cabinet has various piercings for ventilation, I assume. There is a slight detail carving along the base of the raised panel in the cabinet door. The surface of the top of the front board below the drawer, and the underside of the drawer both have 'R.A'. in black brush lettering. 74.5't x 32"w x 22"d. I love this piece!
Looks to be an Asian piece judging by the look of the Mahogany and some of the pierce-carved elements. Hard to tell age from pics, but my gut guess is within the last 30 years. The tops don't appear to have much, if any wear which would be more appropriate of an old piece.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, only playing the Devil's Advocate. I understand where you might have the impression that this may be Indonesian/Asian, but in real life it does not give that impression. While there are Chinese thematic elements in some of the piercings, the carving is well-executed and the build of the piece is substantial. It doesn't emit the 'Indonesian odor'. I punched-up the detail in several of the photos in Photoshop as the cel phone images were contrasty because of the back-lighting. This has lightened and enhanced the color and appearance of the mahogany in the photos. The finish is very good, but does appear to have considerable age to it in real life. It's still at the shop and I will pick it up Monday. We travel for a living and won't actually have it home for another month, but I'll give it a good examination before I wrap it for transport and will take some more photos. If this is Asian and recent, I would be surprised. I've been into antiques in a big way for 44 years, and I'm not easily fooled, but there's always a first time!
Agrees it's almost impossible to date pieces with pics alone. I hope John is wrong but I have a feeling he is correct as those tops do not appear to have a single blemish on them. Naturally, it could be refinished.
Not an easy one, based on the photos.
The base (console) of the piece seems to have a more recent shape to it, kind of 1960s-70s. However, it IS very elaborated, in a rococco kind of way :)
The bottom line is whether you love it or not. I can see that this would be an impressive addition to anyone's household. I've certainly never seen anything like it. Keep us updated on what you find out.
Oh, and can you elaborate on this "Indonesian odor?" I guess I"m a newbie about that issue.
The base (console) of the piece seems to have a more recent shape to it, kind of 1960s-70s. However, it IS very elaborated, in a rococco kind of way :)
The bottom line is whether you love it or not. I can see that this would be an impressive addition to anyone's household. I've certainly never seen anything like it. Keep us updated on what you find out.
Oh, and can you elaborate on this "Indonesian odor?" I guess I"m a newbie about that issue.
The photo below isolates an element that is the one that tells me the most. This is a motif that is decidedly un-Rococo and hints strongly at an Asian influence or origin.
The door design also is out of the Rococo realm with the semi-circular shape and as Kevin stated, might suggest a design from a couple decades ago.
I realized you tweaked the color/contrast a bit in Photoshop, but even with this reversed, I think the color of the cabinet is more of a wine shade than a typical American or Continental mahogany stain shade. This would also suggest Asian to me.
It's possible a wood expert could also isolate the type of Mahogany used and in what region(s) it is typically used in furniture.
I am not an expert in this, just sharing my observations after having had a few Indo pieces in my life.
Thanks for sharing it.
The door design also is out of the Rococo realm with the semi-circular shape and as Kevin stated, might suggest a design from a couple decades ago.
I realized you tweaked the color/contrast a bit in Photoshop, but even with this reversed, I think the color of the cabinet is more of a wine shade than a typical American or Continental mahogany stain shade. This would also suggest Asian to me.
It's possible a wood expert could also isolate the type of Mahogany used and in what region(s) it is typically used in furniture.
I am not an expert in this, just sharing my observations after having had a few Indo pieces in my life.
Thanks for sharing it.
Would have to agree with Rare, although a picture does not always
disclose the truth. The close up of the detail does indeed look Asian,
but what seals the deal for me are the size and quality of the
finials. The mahogany reproductions we often see seem to lack proper
proportion and these finials just don't seem to fit. It is almost as if they were
added at the last moment to supply the icing on the cake.
stever
disclose the truth. The close up of the detail does indeed look Asian,
but what seals the deal for me are the size and quality of the
finials. The mahogany reproductions we often see seem to lack proper
proportion and these finials just don't seem to fit. It is almost as if they were
added at the last moment to supply the icing on the cake.
stever
The door design also is out of the Rococo realm with the semi-circular shape and as Kevin stated, might suggest a design from a couple decades ago.
The door panel is actually Queen Anne (1730-1760) however, it is not unusual for furniture makers in the victorian age to have 2 or more different design elements in a single piece.
I think it's pretty clear here that John is correct that your piece is most likely an import but hey, does that really matter? As long as you connect emotionally to the piece, thats all that really matters, isnt it?
The door panel is actually Queen Anne (1730-1760) however, it is not unusual for furniture makers in the victorian age to have 2 or more different design elements in a single piece.
I think it's pretty clear here that John is correct that your piece is most likely an import but hey, does that really matter? As long as you connect emotionally to the piece, thats all that really matters, isnt it?
Thanks everyone for the valuable input. I'm not hard-headed enough to not believe that some of you may be correct that this may be Asian, but I will post better quality photos soon so a better determination may be made. These photos were all shot with my cel phone camera, but I will photograph it again with my DSLR and post better images. I'll also clean it up a bit!
That grossly-carved refugee-from-Pier One Indonesian furniture has a distinct and peculiar odor to it, rather pungent. It actually stings my eyes a bit when entering a shop or mall that has a bunch of it seeded in with real antiques. That's what I'm referring to when I said "Indonesian odor". After the Sept. 11th attacks, I thought about starting a rumor that the sale of Indonesian fake antique furniture was supporting radical Islamic groups in Indonesia, hoping that the intense sentiment of the day would prevent people from buying it and that it would eventually dry up and blow away -- but I never did! ;D I hate the smell of Indonesian furniture and "secret sauce" (Howards, etc.) when I walk into a shop or mall. :P
That grossly-carved refugee-from-Pier One Indonesian furniture has a distinct and peculiar odor to it, rather pungent. It actually stings my eyes a bit when entering a shop or mall that has a bunch of it seeded in with real antiques. That's what I'm referring to when I said "Indonesian odor". After the Sept. 11th attacks, I thought about starting a rumor that the sale of Indonesian fake antique furniture was supporting radical Islamic groups in Indonesia, hoping that the intense sentiment of the day would prevent people from buying it and that it would eventually dry up and blow away -- but I never did! ;D I hate the smell of Indonesian furniture and "secret sauce" (Howards, etc.) when I walk into a shop or mall. :P
Another thing i just noticed, right next to your piece is a golden oak C. 1900 or later desk/bookcase and in one of your pic's one can clearly see the leg/stile of this bookcase. Notice the dings in the leg? I dont see any evidence of any wear/dings/scratches at all in your piece and if it was period, those dings should be there.
Good post, John!
So, the "Indonesian Odor" is rather acrid and pungent, eh? I'll be sure to get closeup and personal with the next "Victorian Asian" fern stands I see. Sounds like a useful tool, even if it wasn't enough to get the stuff banned from our shores, post 911!
So, the "Indonesian Odor" is rather acrid and pungent, eh? I'll be sure to get closeup and personal with the next "Victorian Asian" fern stands I see. Sounds like a useful tool, even if it wasn't enough to get the stuff banned from our shores, post 911!
Well, I have to eat humble pie on this one. When we went to pick it up I immediately looked at the underside of the cabinet and it is most definitely Asian. It's more finely wrought than most of the Indonesian stuff and the color isn't the same as most of what I've seen. No tell-tale odor, either -- perhaps it's a little older or not made in Indonesia. It was only $200 so I don't feel badly burned by it since I do actually like it, but my pride is a bit wounded! My wife says that the 'R.A.' painted on the case and drawer means 'Reproduction Antique' or 'Reproduced (in) Asia' -- lol! One never stops learning and one's best teachers aren't always one's favorite teachers! Hope this thread helps others! It'll look good in the corner of the dining room until something authentic takes it's place that we like better.
I agree that knocks and nicks may testify to the age of a piece, but condition is only one indicator. I have items that look like they came from a time machine in my collection. I also collect antique record players and music boxes in a serious way and I have been astounded sometimes at the remarkable state of preservation of some of these items. As an example, I am attaching photos of a scarce Pathe' 'Actuelle' phonograph circa 1916 that I also recently acquired. When it was new, it was for sale in a hardware/furniture store in a small town north of Columbus, Ohio. Apparently it did not sell, and was moved upstairs into warehouse space where it has sat in exactly the same spot for over 90 years until I purchased it just a few days ago. These photos were taken after it had been moved to the ground floor (gotta love the 'Crime Scene' tape). As you can see, the exterior is covered in a fine dust and has only three or four contraction lines in the finish that aren't visible in the photo (these have very delicate finishes); while the inside is absolutely flawless mint and still retains it's mirror-finish under the dust. The turntable felt, gold-plating on the hardware, and the fragile paper cone (which are usually found torn) in the 'diffusor' are also perfect. There is not a nick or a blem anywhere on the cabinet from vacuum cleaners, vases, etc -- nothing. So, condition is not always the sole or most important determiner of age/authenticity.
As a side note, these Actuelle cabinets were produced for Pathe' by the Prestonia Mfg. Co. of Louisville, Ky. (my hometown). More than one style was produced (I have another Actuelle in a simpler cabinet). When the Actuelle ceased production about 1921, leftover cabinets were modified with more conventional hollow tone-arms and papier-mache' internal horns and rebranded as 'Prestonia' and 'Operaphone'. These are also seldom seen, but not particularly valuable.
I agree that knocks and nicks may testify to the age of a piece, but condition is only one indicator. I have items that look like they came from a time machine in my collection. I also collect antique record players and music boxes in a serious way and I have been astounded sometimes at the remarkable state of preservation of some of these items. As an example, I am attaching photos of a scarce Pathe' 'Actuelle' phonograph circa 1916 that I also recently acquired. When it was new, it was for sale in a hardware/furniture store in a small town north of Columbus, Ohio. Apparently it did not sell, and was moved upstairs into warehouse space where it has sat in exactly the same spot for over 90 years until I purchased it just a few days ago. These photos were taken after it had been moved to the ground floor (gotta love the 'Crime Scene' tape). As you can see, the exterior is covered in a fine dust and has only three or four contraction lines in the finish that aren't visible in the photo (these have very delicate finishes); while the inside is absolutely flawless mint and still retains it's mirror-finish under the dust. The turntable felt, gold-plating on the hardware, and the fragile paper cone (which are usually found torn) in the 'diffusor' are also perfect. There is not a nick or a blem anywhere on the cabinet from vacuum cleaners, vases, etc -- nothing. So, condition is not always the sole or most important determiner of age/authenticity.
As a side note, these Actuelle cabinets were produced for Pathe' by the Prestonia Mfg. Co. of Louisville, Ky. (my hometown). More than one style was produced (I have another Actuelle in a simpler cabinet). When the Actuelle ceased production about 1921, leftover cabinets were modified with more conventional hollow tone-arms and papier-mache' internal horns and rebranded as 'Prestonia' and 'Operaphone'. These are also seldom seen, but not particularly valuable.
